Is there a way to link SketchUp materials and IRender nXt materials
Is it possible to link SketchUp materials with IRender nXt materials and vice versa? When you render SketchUp models and scenes, you're investing a lot of time making your materials perfectly rendering. Ideally this would be needed just once, so the next time you choose the linked SketchUp material, it's automatically "mapped" to the belonging IRender nXt one.
I've evaluated a couple of rendering software and so far I'm wondering why this quite obvious feature seems to be unavailable. Or am i wrong?
I've evaluated a couple of rendering software and so far I'm wondering why this quite obvious feature seems to be unavailable. Or am i wrong?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Render Plus on
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I believe we already do everthing you are looking for. (We store all rendering parameters in the SketchUp model - materials, lights, and other parameters) - so that you do not have to define them again when reloading the .SKP model and rendering it again.)
When you render a SketchUp model with materials, we use those materials to create nXt materials.
If you right click on a surface, (after loading the IRender nXt plugin), and select Create Material or Edit Material, then we create a nXt material (a .ArMaterial file), and then store the entire material file on the SketchUp material as an attribute.
The next time you use the SketchUp drawing, we remember the material settings you used and use them for the next rendering.
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Permalink Reply by Manfred van der Voort on
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Hi Al,
Thanks for your quick and consise response. So far it's clear to me regarding Render Plus. But for me the interesting use case is the following. Suppose I'm making a new model and use let's say as a SketchUp material "LightWoodHardMaple". This material has been used before in another model and was "enhanced" with the render/material specific attributes for reflection, bump, glossiness, etc. So far so good.
Now I use this in another SU model. But as far as I can see the relation between the SketchUp material and the render/material attributes isn't stored somewhere. So my cocern is that for this new 3D model I have to enter the render/material specific attributes again. Does this makes sense or am I wrong?
Al Hart said:I believe we already do everthing you are looking for. (We store all rendering parameters in the SketchUp model - materials, lights, and other parameters) - so that you do not have to define them again when reloading the .SKP model and rendering it again.)
When you render a SketchUp model with materials, we use those materials to create nXt materials.
If you right click on a surface, (after loading the IRender nXt plugin), and select Create Material or Edit Material, then we create a nXt material (a .ArMaterial file), and then store the entire material file on the SketchUp material as an attribute.
The next time you use the SketchUp drawing, we remember the material settings you used and use them for the next rendering.
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Unfortunately, when you save a SketchUp material from a SKP model, it does not save the attributes on the model, so there is no way we can find and reuse the attributes on the material which you altered.
This is a bug in SketchUp, You can put attributes on SketchUp materials, and you can then save these materials into your own library, but SketchUp either does not save, or does not restore the attributes (I forget which)
We could automatically create a nXt .ArMaterial material in a user library, and then automatically use it for all models which use the same SketchUp material.
What do other users think? Should we provide a better way to save and reuse settings on SketchUp materials?
We do now, however, have a concept of a User nXt material. If you save your material into a the user library, then you can reload and use the nXt .ArMaterial, and place it directly on a SketchUp surface.
Manfred van der Voort said:Hi Al,
Suppose I'm making a new model and use let's say as a SketchUp material "LightWoodHardMaple". This material has been used before in another model and was "enhanced" with the render/material specific attributes for reflection, bump, glossiness, etc. So far so good.
Now I use this in another SU model. But as far as I can see the relation between the SketchUp material and the render/material attributes isn't stored somewhere. So my cocern is that for this new 3D model I have to enter the render/material specific attributes again. Does this makes sense or am I wrong?
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Well from a SU perspective I can understand why a 3rd party software developer can't save extra material properties in a .skm file. It could lead to a scenario where compatibility issues arise with non render users. So for now that's a given limitation of SU.
With this limitation other mechanisms could be made to overcome the lack of a global (I mean SU model/file independant) link between SU material and render. I'm thinking of a automatic mapping mechanism based on the SketchUp material name. For that mechanism you could define a naming convention how (large) collections of SU materials are automatically mapped to their render counterpart. I'm aware of the SU behaviour automatically instancing SU materials when you import components. SU will for example create "DarkWalnutEuropean1" when "DarkWalnutEuropean" exists in the current model. So the mechanism should be intelligent enough to handle with these variations.
It would in my opinion also very powerful when it's possible to create a global "material linking table". Every table row defines which SU material is being mapped/linked to which (existing) render material during render time. This mechanism could help gradually tie together SU and the render software, as the effort put into creating render materials cummulates during the life time of both software packages.
Most renderer makers I've seen seem to put their effort in improving all sort of very interesting things, but not in the tight integration with the 3D modellers and material handling during lifetime. RPS is in my opinion a positive exception from SU perspective.
Al Hart said:Unfortunately, when you save a SketchUp material from a SKP model, it does not save the attributes on the model, so there is no way we can find and reuse the attributes on the material which you altered.
This is a bug in SketchUp, You can put attributes on SketchUp materials, and you can then save these materials into your own library, but SketchUp either does not save, or does not restore the attributes (I forget which)
We could automatically create a nXt .ArMaterial material in a user library, and then automatically use it for all models which use the same SketchUp material.
What do other users think? Should we provide a better way to save and reuse settings on SketchUp materials?
We do now, however, have a concept of a User nXt material. If you save your material into a the user library, then you can reload and use the nXt .ArMaterial, and place it directly on a SketchUp surface.
Manfred van der Voort said:Hi Al,
Suppose I'm making a new model and use let's say as a SketchUp material "LightWoodHardMaple". This material has been used before in another model and was "enhanced" with the render/material specific attributes for reflection, bump, glossiness, etc. So far so good.
Now I use this in another SU model. But as far as I can see the relation between the SketchUp material and the render/material attributes isn't stored somewhere. So my cocern is that for this new 3D model I have to enter the render/material specific attributes again. Does this makes sense or am I wrong?
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Permalink Reply by Ben1517 on
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Has this ever been resolved? This is key (essential) for fast working, having to re-create a materials for every model is very time consuming. Surely an easy solution would be to add a User library accesed in nxt as the nxt library is (ie under sketchup tab in the image) THis could be built up over time by the user(S) It could be accessed from every model if users could set the location of this, this would also be useful so multiple users could access the same library. if multiple library could be added that would be even better. This may already be feature if it is can you tell me how to get to it.
If not could you you tell me the best way to transfer materials between models and retain the nxt properties
Cheers Ben
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Permalink Reply by Mike Halls on
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This is more of a 'work around' than a solution but may help.
Open a sketchup session , create a number of surfaces and apply the materials you want to use in new models.
Edit the NXT attributes (gloss etc) fo all the materials then delete the geometry.
Save the file as, say, 'NXT template'.
Close the file.
Open a new sketchup session and go to Window - Preferences.
Click template and browse to the 'NXT template' file (or whatever you have called it.)
Click OK and then close this file.
Now every time you open a new Sketchup file the materials, with NXT attribute,s will be preloaded from the template file and found in the 'In Model' dropdown in the materials dialogue.
To expand the available materials simply add them to the template file and resave.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Mike
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Mike's idea might work by just saving components with nXt materials saved for them.
(We probably save materials properly in Components - just not .SKM files)
You could save one component per material, or several materials per component.
Place the component, use the imported material, and purge ununused if desired.
I will try it out...
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mmmmm...
Mike all a bit roundabout and assumes all material are created at once before you start in reality material evolve and are added to over time. I find igenerally creat a material in model then think thats works and want to save it somewhere for future use i would then have to open the template file re-create it and resave.. Ok could work. .....can't something be made to work alongside the Nxt material library that would be much better.
Al . Components would work ok tho can try that one.
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Hi Ben
Take your point, I did say it was a bit of a 'workaround' rather than a solution.
You wouldn't have to re-create it in the template file - just have the template file open in another session of sketchup at the same time. Make and apply a material in your model, when you are happy with it , copy the face, patse into the template and delete the geometry. At the end of your session resave the template file and it would be updated with all your new materials. You can even go back to old models and copy and paste previously made materials in the same way.
Over time your collection in the template file would be quite comprehensive. I tend to reuse materials that work well for me so adding the odd new one is not too much of a bind.
Interesting discussion.
Regards
Mike
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We can also take a look at loading .nXT materials from a folder which have the same name as the SketchUp materials used. And saving any modified materials as .nXt materials to the same folder. To make a synchronization easier.
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Rich and I discussed this and we are going to add it as a feature.
A "Synched Materials - Load" button will load all nXt materials from a specia lsynched materials folder with the same name as the SketchUp material into your drawing.
A "Synched Materials - Save" button will save all SketchUp materials in you model which have had nXt properties added to them to the special synched materials folder.
A checkbox, "Auto-synch" will load the saved, synched materials into the current model - only for materials which don't have nXt material properties attached to them already - every time you start a new rendering.
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